JISHOU, HUNAN — Here’s a surprise: I posted a comment at a denialist website pointing out an obvious factual error, and … drum roll please! … the comment was deleted. Or, it has disappeared into moderation limbo.
A denialist is one who believes that commonly accepted facts or scientific theories are wrong, despite all evidence to the contrary. There are evolution denialists, gravity denialists (see elsewhere at this site), germ theory denialists, Holocaust denialists, and Barack-Obama-was-born-in-the-USA denialists, among many others.
Daily Kos had a story about one Dr. Orly Taitz, a California dentist cum constitutional lawyer who labors under the misconception that Obama was actually born in Indonesia. She insists, among other crazy ideas notions, that Obama was an Occidental College student named Barry Soetoro.
That he was not is pretty clear, and I am not going to spend time here debunking her variety of looniness. The woman is convinced she is right, and damn the torpedoes, she’s sticking to her story.
In one of her posts, Taitz says the following about the mythical Obama/Soetoro. The spelling and grammatical errors are hers; the highlighted sections are mine.
Due to the fact that Obama arrogantly refuses to unseal his vital records and uses his attorney Robert Bauer as a tool to harass and initmidate law abiding citizens and attorneys; there are numerous rumors on the internet about those records.
Recently I received an e-mail, stating that Obama has received a Fullbright scholarship, while at Occidental. Fullbright is given to foreign students.
I got another report, that he was nominated for another scholarship, but didn’t get it, as it was limited to US students only.
I, also received this printout, that I posted yesterday, showing Soetoro, as a foreign student from Indonesia.
The first untruth is that Obama has not released his “vital records.” Actually, he released his Hawai’i birth certificate during the campaign last year. This blog is a good clearinghouse of evidence for Obama’s US citizenship, as well as more detailed takedown of Taitz and her brand of denialism.
The second inaccuracy is that Fulbright scholarships are only awarded to foreign students. A simple check of the Internet would have corrected this misconception. Fulbrights are awarded to US citizens, too. I know, because I was a Fulbright exchange teacher.
Anyway, I made this comment:
You said, “Recently I received an e-mail, stating that Obama has received a Fullbright scholarship, while at Occidental. Fullbright is given to foreign students.”
Wrong. The Fulbright program awards scholarships to both US and foreign students, and also enables high school and university faculty exchanges. I was a Fulbright teacher exchange participant several years ago, and I was born on Long Island.
From the Fulbright website http://www.cies.org/about_fulb.htm:
Approximately 294,000 “Fulbrighters,” 111,000 from the United States and 183,000 from other countries, have participated in the Program since its inception more than sixty years ago. The Fulbright program awards approximately 7,500 new grants annually.Being nominated for a scholarship and not getting it is not proof Obama was foreign-born. It just proves he didn’t get the scholarship. That happens to US-born students all the time.
Note that I did not address the hot-button issue that “Barry Soetoro = Barack Obama,” which would have guaranteed my comment would be deleted. Rather, I just pointed out a factual error in her circumstantial evidence. Taitz moderates her comments, so there was the usual WordPress message about moderation. No big deal, I figured. I’ll go to bed and check in the morning. To be on the safe side (I’ve had some experience with comments getting “lost”), I took a screen capture of my comment.
This morning, lo and behold! My comment was nowhere to be found on Dr. Orly Taitz’ exercise in futility website. The error about Fulbrights only going to foreign students remains, as well. Am I surprised? Not one bit. Denialists are so dead sure of their own “theories” that they dismiss mere facts as irrelevant, particularly if they believe (as they often do) that there is conspiracy afoot to quash their pet “theories.”
I now await the deluge of angry comments from Taitzian followers.
Of course your post was deleted. It was muffling the echo in the chamber.
Lets see the long birth certificate. what he came up with was a “certificate of live Birth”, which is NOT a birth verification, only that he was born alive. All he has to do is release his actual long certificate and college transcripts as all the other Presidents of the USA have done. Give the american people the proof that he is abiding by the constitution. By the way my husband was in immigration service and he said what obama provided would not be accepted as a birth certificate (and that was the FEDERAL GOVT’S LAW). So it appears that he does have something to hide.
Snopes.com has debunked most of what you say, R.Fr. So have a lot of civil authorities.
If you look carefully at the bottom of the online image, it says, “This documents serves as prima facie evidence of the fact of birth in any court proceeding.” It is in fact a birth verification: it gives his DOB, his parents’ names, the location of birth, and his name. The long form would not supply much else pertinent to the matter at hand. What do you want, an official document that says, “Obama is an American citizen, stupid. So shut up!”?
Seriously, I cannot fathom why this matter is even an issue anymore. There are three independent branches of the US government. Each presumably would have checked and double-checked the authenticity of Obama’s American birth records. Each has a duty to uphold the US Constitution. Certainly, if there was a question, the GOP and John McCain would have said something. Do you believe even they were hoodwinked?
As for releasing his college transcripts or other information, why? Perhaps Obama believes the question is settled, and his birth place is now a non-issue among the vast majority of the US public and all government agencies. He does have other things to worry about that are a tad more critical.
Get over it. He’s American born. End of story.
I got this comment from J.D. Wilkie tonight. I thought I approved it, but somehow it fell into the maw of my WordPress blackhole. Unlike some blogs, I actually let challengers’ comments appear. Ahem.
Taitz alleges that Obama was born in Kenya, not Indonesia, the country of origin of his natural father. Indonesia was his step-father’s country of origin.
Fulbright scholars who are U.S. citizens receive funding to study abroad, not in the United States. If Obama was a Fulbright scholar as an undergraduate student, such an award would not have funded study at an American institution, in this case Occidental College. I would welcome any information in this regard to the contrary.
If indeed Obama went by the name of Barry Soetoro, I would not think it difficult to determine that fact with anecdotal evidence, at the very least (his Occidental College records are sealed per his request); e.g., a college roommate, fellow students, Occidental College professors, social friends, etc. After all, it was only 31 years ago.
I would be inclined to forgive any typographical errors at Taitz’s website/blog. Blogs in particular are rife with such errors. Indeed, I understand Taitz speaks five languages including English.
Well, Obama could not have been a Fulbright scholar at Occidental, since he (1) a US citizen who had just graduated from a Hawaiian high school and (2) a freshman in 1979. Fulbrights, as J.D. Wilkie notes, go to older students and faculty to study abroad, not in their home countries. Someone fresh out of high school would not be eligible in any event.
There was a visiting student surnamed Soetoro in California, who in fact was from Indonesia, but that happened in 1963. Obama was born in 1961, so he cannot possibly be “Barry Soetoro.”
One would presume that were Obama actually “Barry Soetoro,” that kind of secret could not be kept indefinitely. One or more of his classmates, professors, cafeteria workers, et alia, would have spilled the beans years ago, and certainly by the time Obama declared his candidacy for the Democratic nomination. Unless, of course, you are convinced that there is some kind of omnipotent, omnipresent conspiracy that could suppress such information for 31 years, and begin suppressing it long before Obama entered politics!
Occam’s Razor suggests that all the facts point to one logical conclusion: Obama is Obama, not “Barry Soetoro,” and was in fact born in Hawai’i in 1961. He is a native of the USA. The fact that Taitz and others repeat the same lies and innuendos ad infinitum does not make any of them true.
As for typos, I am not inclined to forgive them. I have been a writer, reporter, copy editor and teacher for 31 years, and believe it the responsibility of anyone publishing anything for public consumption to take the time to check spelling and grammar. Given that most word processing software automatically checks spelling, proofreading is now a piece of cake. Taitz, a Russian emigre, may in fact speak five languages. So what? She could take the time to check both her writing and her facts. To do otherwise is lazy and irresponsible.
R.Fr says: “my husband was in immigration service and he said what obama provided would not be accepted as a birth certificate (and that was the FEDERAL GOVT’S LAW). So it appears that he does have something to hide.”
This raises an interesting question: is the husband wrong, or is the anecdote entirely false? Given the frequency with which I find ignorant experts popping up just when a nObama needs to refute a fact, I lean towards the latter.
In a recent court filing by the US Department of State (the folks that issue passports — not the immigration service) in the case of Strunk v. US Department of State, the Department of State said:
“To the extent this paragraph alleges that President Obama’s birth certificate has not been released to the public, that allegation is denied. To the extent this paragraph alleges that the birth certificate released to the public at the direction of President Obama is not a valid birth certificate or that such certificate is not sufficient proof of U.S. citizenship, those allegations are denied.”
See: http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/strunk-answer.pdf
I think it’s clear whence these wacko claims stem: it’s pure racism. Obama is “different”, so he MUST not be a citizen. Pretty disturbing.
Kudos to you for your points about spelling and grammar, too. As I would have expected.
PK, stop throwing around terms and calling them ‘wacko’ just because you don’t agree. I don’t know whether the Russian Dr. is a ‘racist’ or not, neither do you. In his book Obama states that he was adopted by his mother’s second husband Soetero and he even says that he used the name Barry. There is no conspiracy about that, stop being so anxious about it. Get real will ya.
If Obama went by the name Barry Soetoro, no one has found definitive evidence that a Barry Soetoro attended Occidental College between 1979 and 1981. All Taitz and others have done is to allege “Barry Soetoro” was there, and refer to “emails” and “proof” from vague sources as evidence.
No one seems to consider whether there might be two (or more) Barry Soetoros out there. If you google my name, for example, you may find me, but you will also find a Hollywood make-up artist and a martial arts expert. Neither of them is me.
Maybe you don’t like the word “wacko,” but clearly Taitz and other birthers have a little trouble distinguishing between cold, hard evidence and their own delusional conspiracy theories. Whether race concerns has prompted such delusions, I cannot say, but I know at least one fellow challenged John McCain’s eligibility to be president, because he believed McCain’s birth in the US-held Panama Canal Zone made him a foreign citizen.
As much as we may hate to admit, some people don’t like Obama because he is in fact “different” from all of the previous 43 presidents: he is not white. If Obama had a WASPy name like Burns, and had two white parents, I somehow doubt anyone would be questioning the legality of his presidency.
I’ll stand by my “wacko” and raise it to “batshit crazy”, frankly. Check out Orly Taitz’ website at http://www.orlytaitzesq.com/blog1/. A sample rant that’s posted there, quoted verbatim: “You try and do things right–they tell you to drop dead. and we are supposedto say oh thank you thank you for spitting in my face and then placing your misued authority on my neck–God this is beginning to smell like 1933 in Munich and the Constituent Assembly in Russia when lenin lost and rushed in with his Bolshevik goons to arrest all involved in russia’s first democratic election–wel what kind of special army is Barry Soetoro talking about?”
This sort of thing is simply not the work of rational people, so trying to engage in any kind of facts-based rational discussion with them is pointless.
Just to clarify a few points…
Obama was known as “Barry Obama” to students and faculty when he enrolled at Occidental College. No one there knew him as “Barry Soetoro.” http://articles.latimes.com/2007/jan/29/local/me-oxy29
There is no evidence, anywhere, that Obama was a Fulbright scholar. http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/has_a_smoking_gun_been_found_to.html
There is no evidence, anywhere, that Obama was ever adopted by his stepfather, Luis Soetoro. The claim that Obama states in his book that he was adopted by Soetoro is incorrect. Nowhere in his book does Obama say that.
It is also incorrect to say that Obama’s college records are “sealed per his request.” In fact, every student’s records are sealed, in the sense that no one is allowed to see those records without proper authorization. Try ordering a copy of the college transcript of someone – anyone – other than your own and see how far you get.
All we know about the Fullbright scholarship to the US school is that Obama said he got it. He has locked up his reacords so tight that no one can get it come hell or high water. Because his citizenship had to be in Indonesia when he studied in elementary school there and there is no reacord that he ever regasined his citizenship. At any rate, to have gone to school in Indonesia, his US citizenshipwould have had to have been renounced if indeed he had US citizenship and that alone would make him ineligible to be president.
If any of you knew anything about anything you would know that what obama presented as a birth certificate is not a birth certificate at all because it didn’t have ANY of the required signatureas on it. In addition,the number was blacked out which renders it invalid anyway. If you read the bottom, it sait “any alterations render this document invalid”. THINK STUPID! A blacked out number is an alteration! Every president in the past has been able to prove that he was a natural born citizen with the exception of the first three but the constitution made provisions for that in that it says “or was a citizen at the time of this writing”
Could it be that two grandmothers (American and Kenyan)who both claimed his birth in Kenya could better recall the details than he could? Could it be the college records might clear up some viable missing pieces in the language of confusion?
It’s obvious that since you are a communist yourself,you would love to see the US taken over by you theiving skunks so KEEP YOUR UGLY NOSE OUT OF MY COUNTRY.
Don Ellwood:
Where and when did Obama say that he had a Fulbright scholarship? Do you have a reliable source? The claim that Obama was a Fulbright scholar at Occidental College was first floated in an e-mail that was circulated in April Fools’ Day, and the author of that e-mail subsequently admitted that it was a hoax.
http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/has_a_smoking_gun_been_found_to.html
You obviously don’t understand U.S. law regarding the renouncing of citizenship. The fundamental rule is that parents cannot renounce a minor’s citizenship. There is nothing that Obama’s mother or stepfather could have done while they were in Indonesia to cause Obama to lose his U.S. citizenship. For Obama to have lost his U.S. citizenship, he personally would have had to renounce his citizenship after he reached the age of majority. Of course, there is no evidence that he ever did that. Nor is there any reason why he would have done that, because he returned to Hawaii when he was ten years old and he has lived continuously in the U.S. ever since.
Regarding the COLB, it was never altered by anyone. When the COLB was scanned for publication on the Internet, the registration number was blacked out in the scanned image only, because someone in the Obama campaign thought that the number might be something confidential which should not be revealed. However, when factcheck.org examined the COLB, they took several photographs of it, all of which show the registration number (and every other part of the COLB) intact.
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html
factcheck.org also verified that the COLB is signed by Alvin T. Onaka, Hawaii’s registrar, and it bears the raised Seal of Hawaii. I don’t know what other “required signatures” you might be referring to, since there is no place on the COLB for any other signatures.
And your claims about the COLB not being a birth certificate are wrong. The State of Hawaii has affirmed that the COLB is the ONLY birth certificate which Hawaii issues, and it is recognized as fully valid proof of birth and citizenship for all purposes (including obtaining a U.S. passport) by the State Department.
http://www.starbulletin.com/columnists/kokualine/20090606_kokua_line.html
And there is no evidence that either of Obama’s grandmothers said that he was born in Kenya. There was a story going around that his step-grandmother in Kenya said that he was born there, but the full transcript of that conversation makes it clear that she never actually said that. In fact, when the questioner pressed her on it, she realized that he had misunderstood her and she repeatedly assured him that Obama was born in Hawaii. Of course, when Philip Berg filed his lawsuit he conveniently omitted that portion of the transcript.
Finally, is it really necessary to include personal insults with your rants? For what it’s worth, I served in the military for four years (1967-1970), and among other decorations I was awarded the Vietnam Service Ribbon with 3 stars. What have you done for your country?
Rickey has pretty much answered you, Don, but here’s my 2 cents.
Your comments are just plain stupid. Sorry to be so rude, but jiminy christmas, there is so much wrong information in your post that it defies any other description.
Obama never said he had a Fulbright scholarship. Nutjob birthers keep repeating the same rumor that Obama is really an Indonesian named Barry Soetoro who did attend Occidental College on a Fulbright. But Obama is not Soetoro. Never was. Never will be. Repeating the same lie over and over does not make it magically become true.
No country that I know of requires you to renounce your foreign citizenship to either attend their schools or teach in them. Both my kids attended South African schools, and remain US citizens to this day. I taught in South Africa and now teach in China. I’m still a US citizen.
Rickey has addressed the rest of your jibber-jabber about the birth certificate. The facts are plain as the nose on your face. The birth certificate is legit. Obama is a US citizen.
If Obama was a white guy with a plain-vanilla name like John Smith, would we be even having this debate? I would bet not. Some of you birthers just can’t over that (1) Obama ain’t white and (2) the Republicans lost big-time.
I second Rickey’s outrage. I didn’t serve in the military, but I suffered through the Nixon years, and the W. administration, during which both presidencies any number of laws were broken. Liberals, as far as I remember, never called for the forcible removal or death of either Nixon or W., as some right wingers are now of Obama. We waited for the inevitable Constitutional change of office. If you don’t like Obama, get over it. He can only serve two terms.